Plug Power Inc (PLUG) Options

Hydrogen buses I think are getting wider adoption but not at the speed expected 2 yers ago. Some early pilots have stopped but for varied and uncertain reasons. Wrightbus in Europe has many successful and growing customers. Repeat business is a sign of successful pilots.
The bus model has the benefit of all being based in one depot so hydrogen just has to be delivered, stored and dispensed there.
compared to battery electric vehicles the Fuel cell will be longer range probably higher power and quicker to refuel, more dependable due to weather (battery charge loss in cold weather)
PLUG have been quiet about he BAESystems. FCBus solution using the Progen Fuel cell which unlike the Bosche FC used by Nikola is more general purpose and able o be configured away from the electric engine itself. I would expect that helps in longevity but lower power. SK were doing something inKorea (or was that with BAE Systems?) as well.

Took off the shelf parts. They did not spec any new parts to be made. Not sure about about body parts for the trucks.Most, if not all, vehicle manufacturers design parts that go into their vehicles. That is the difference.

I'm not disagreeing about the government (local, state or federal) getting involved. I just don't think they need to, unless the vehicle market explodes. I, also, don't think it will take trillions. Maybe it will take hundreds of billions over more than a decade and spread over a lot of companies.

I doubt the fuel cell car market will be larger than the battery EV (one reason why trillions don't need to be spent).

"Nikola put parts together. they did make anything."

car manufacturers have parts made all over the world and then have them shipped to factories where they are put together...how is that different?...

"Toyota has been selling it since 2014 (over ten years). I see plenty of them."

there have been a grand total of 11k Marai's sold in the US in the 11 years they have been around...and you can see them in the SF and LA areas...absolutely no where else will you see any...

"Finding hydrogen for fuel cell vehicles needs to get easier."

and thats where the trillions of needed taxpayer dollars come into play...BEV need no such thing...and you wont have some greedy oil company raises prices on the fuel every 20 minutes...

maybe hydrogen buses and big rigs will be a thing...im just not seeing it...many places that tried them have dumped them...companies that built them have gone BK...BEV's are just so much more convenient and easy...fcel's will need to be far superior to bev's...not just comparable...

65% of new businesses fail within the first ten years (i left that off).

Nikola put parts together. they did make anything.

I meant a bus manufacturing company that has been around for more than ten years. When buying a new type of vehicle, you want to make sure the manufacturer has a good chance of still being around when testing it.

Toyota Mirai (auto-correct got me).
Toyota has been selling it since 2014 (over ten years). I see plenty of them.

Honda came out with a fuel cell CR-V last year, after being out of the fuel cell market since 2019.

Finding hydrogen for fuel cell vehicles needs to get easier.

I said propane was sold at gas stations. Gas stations had a giant propane tank. They would fill small tanks. Propane trucks would come and fill the giant tank at the gas station.

Gas stations can have a big hydrogen tank. They can fill fuel cell car's hydrogen tank. Hydrogen can be trucked in to refill the giant tank.

Similar...

great...but the issue was hydrogen, not propane...so why are we talking about propane?...

"Almost 25% of new businesses fail in their first year, nearly 50% by five years."

nkla has been around for 9 years...they raised almost a billion dollars...when accounting for reverse splits, their share price has been as high as $2800 per share...they were simply trying to make hydrogen big rigs that were not economically viable...the same will be true for buses...HAS been true for buses...

"Bus manufacturing companies should be making fuel cell buses, not necessarily an aftermarket company."

anyone making buses is a bus manufacturer...not sure how a bus manufacturer can be called an "aftermarket" company...

"Toyota has no problem keeping g their low selling Moral on the market."

i assume you are talking about Toyota's Marai?...the Marai is a joke...Toyota only sells them in Calif because no where else has hydrogen fuel pumps...and Calif only has them in the San Francisco and LA area...many of which are often not working...toyt selling Marais is a joke...they are offering $12k credit for fuel and STILL cant sell many...those who buy the car are suing toyt because they cant drive anywhere with them except to look for a working pump to refuel...lol

Steve - I don't believe 45 v is settled at all.
Some of our utility clients certainly don't think so.  They are holding before spending anything on green, until there is clarity , and most don't think it will happen.

Remember when we used to get daily updates on new job postings ?
Ahhh .. those were the days....

Well, if 45V is now settled with easier guidelines Plug should have no excuse as all those deals on standby should now close and getting demand for Tx. and future plants should be back on the table. Right? I mean this was the excuse why things were held up under Biden. So, it is shite or get off the pot time for Andy now!

Wrightbus are probably over 10 years of hydrogen bus deliveries. so should be seeing real life numbers.
PLUGs own data for Fuel cell degradation in material handling will play into calculations.
The BAE systems work in US and Korea has established some proven capability as bus companies evaluate their options for the next 20-30 years

rick - The distribution model could be similar ?

Bring your hydrogen bottle to the grocery store ?

Have a cryogenic tank next to your house ?

Have a 10,000 PSI tank next to your house ?

What could go wrong ?

No I wasn’t simply stating propane is used for more than barbecuing

Almost 25% of new businesses fail in their first year, nearly 50% by five years. Bus manufacturing companies should be making fuel cell buses, not necessarily an aftermarket company.

Toyota has no problem keeping g their low selling Moral on the market.

GASCADE announces 400 km of natural gas pipeline in Germany to be converted to transport hydrogen in 2025
https://www.worldpipelines.com/project-news/13032025/gascade-announces-400-km-of-natural-gas-pipeline-in-germany-to-be-converted-to-transport-hydrogen-in-2025/

I believe the poster I replied to was…

Yea I heard the same thing said about big rig fcev’s…gotta wait 15 years to get a real evaluation…

I’d say we could ask NKLA about their trucks but they are now bankrupt after only a few years…

Come on dude….gotta wait 15 years for real results??…is this 2025 or 1825?…

New government ruling ends uncertainty over major energy opportunity: 'Preferable to not having rules'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/government-ruling-ends-uncertainty-over-111509370.html

U.S. Green Hydrogen Mobility Market Set to Surge with Federal Backing and Infrastructure Growth
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-green-hydrogen-mobility-market-140200824.html

Have we ever had an update on our offices in France and Germany and what they have accomplished? Seems we have closed down so many lines there ought to be savings since we are no longer throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. They should not put up any plants without an offtake agreement from a substantial client. Speaking of does Amazon still have a deal with us to buy $2 billion in green hydrogen starting this year? Will this be profitable business assuming it is still ongoing?

I wasn't suggesting that hydrogen replace propane. I said the distribution model could be similar.

The initial lifetime of a bus in the US is 10 to 15 years. It would take that long for a pilot program to evaluate them, if they last that long. The maintenance and repair requirements needs to be documented, especially near end of life. Reliability should be getting better as more parts are made for the vehicles, rather than being Frankensteined together.

Buses made to be fuel cell powered should be better than buses modified to be.

“Nel's share price has risen by 50% after Samsung acquired a 10% stake in Nel two weeks ago.”

Yes…the pps rose from under 20 cents to about 35 cents and the volume skyrocketed to several hundred thousand shares over a 5 day period…lol

But the pps is now dropping back down….

You gotta be kidding me with this nonsense…

So they don’t need hydrogen?…unless they want to pay a lot more than they do now?…and I doubt barbecuers will be using hydrogen any time soon…

B_B - Not enough. PLUG needs to cut close to 2,000 ASAP.

Mac - Does the truck deliver your Propane at minus 200 degrees?

Does your truck deliver your Propane at 10,000 PSI ?

FYI - Your Propane is delivered and stored UNDER 200 PSI and at ambient temperatures.

A BIG Difference.

A lot of great posts from Matthew Gauthier & JC Plug!!!

PP Layoffs running deep (800) staff according to recently removed employees
https://www.facebook.com/groups/678402967488784/

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kristen-dewey-0b19ab4_unfortunately-plug-power-has-laid-off-over-activity-7310064188251361282-C6ff?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAADO34XQBfPfEKA35jB5j0ZgQrH05257WUJ8

The truck delivers my propane

Mac - Propane and Hydrogen have very little in common.

Propane is a Hydrocarbon chain molecule that can be easily stored as a liquid or as a gas under LOW Pressure. No cryogenics are necessary.

Hydrogen is the smallest molecule and difficult to contain / store, requiring low temperature cryogenics, specialized alloys, and very high pressures (10,000PSI).

No one will be taking their little hydrogen bottle to the supermarket to exchange, like we do with Propane.

‘Single Institutional Investor’, why the secrecy?
Is this investor trying to avoid a bidding war or does Plug’s management believe that hiding the investor's identity will benefit the share price?

When a company is performing well and its stock is rallying, the unknown can fuel speculation and fantasy, which boosts stock performance. However, when a company is struggling and its stock is plummeting, the unknown creates even more uncertainty, which harms the stock.

Plug’s outstanding shares will total 1,156M once the warrants are fully exercised. The ‘Single Institutional Investor’ will hold a 20% stake in Plug Power.

Nel's share price has risen by 50% after Samsung acquired a 10% stake in Nel two weeks ago.

Only about 12 million people in the United States rely on propane that’s not counting the barbecuers

Morgen (H2 Energy) has a new CEO. The FID for the 1 GW project will likely follow soon, showcasing the new leadership.

MorGen Energy appoints Werner Lieberherr as CEO
March 17, 2025
https://morgenenergy.com/news/

Large-scale projects as the driving force behind Europe’s cross-border green hydrogen economy
Feb 06, 2025 By Sam French
...
The project is currently advancing through the financing and procurement phases, with construction expected to take three years following the final investment decision.
...
https://morgenenergy.com/large-scale-projects-as-the-driving-force-behind-europes-cross-border-green-hydrogen-economy/

Plug lands 1 GW electrolyzer order with H2 Energy Europe
May 17, 2022
https://morgenenergy.com/plug-lands-1-gw-electrolyzer-order-with-h2-energy-europe/

As of 29 October 2024, HE Energy Europe has rebranded to MorGen Energy.

SK is also working with inexperienced hydrogen partners, in addition to Plug Power.

Second-degree burns | Two injured after explosion at hydrogen fuel-cell power plant site in South Korea
Incident is currently under investigation by police, fire department, national gas safety board and the Ministry of Labour and Employment
Polly Martin 20 March 2025

Two workers have been taken to hospital with second-degree burns to their faces and legs, after an explosion at the construction site of Lotte SK Eneroot’s two hydrogen fuel-cell power plants in Ulsan, according to local reports.

Lotte SK Eneroot — a joint venture between Lotte Chemical, SK Gas and Air Liquide’s Korean subsidiary — had won its bid in the Korean government’s general hydrogen power auction last year for two 9MW fuel-cell power plants to be built at Lotte Chemical’s Ulsan complex, as well as a separate 20MW unit.

The explosion is reported to have taken place at one of the two 9MW units during the cleaning of a pipe in the system.
...
https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/power/second-degree-burns-two-injured-after-explosion-at-hydrogen-fuel-cell-power-plant-site-in-south-korea/2-1-1795536

“Give the hydrogen bus market a few decades to catch up.”

They haven’t got that long…a few years at best…they are dropping like flies…

I'd like to say tax payer won't be paying, but they probably will. I don't think they need to. I doubt gas station needed government money. There were EV charging station across the US (shareholder money) before the government stepped in.

I don't see it much now, but a lot of gas stations used to sell propane. They had a large tank and propane would be delivered to fill it. BBQ grills, RVs, trailers, and houses without access to natural gas use propane. I still pass a propane station a couple of times a month.

Hydrogen stations are pretty much setup like gas stations. They have big storage tanks and several dispensers. Hydrogen is trucked in to fill the big tanks. Some Shell gas stations in California sold hydrogen, similar to selling propane, except the customer can fill their own tank.

I see hydrogen going into an inflection point because production and use are still increasing. infrastructure needs to catch up. People with fuel cell vehicles need to be able to drive them outside of California. Trucks will be the bigger market for hydrogen than cars.

The shoe string market is mature. They have been around for thousands of years. Give the hydrogen bus market a few decades to catch up.

SERIOUSLY??.....the GLOBAL market for hydrogen buses MAY grow $2.5 bil in the next 7 years??...

i think the market for shoestring blows those numbers away....

"I doubt it will be trillions"

yes it will be trillions if they do it right...if they try to refurbish the pipelines and gas stations then the later repairs will still carry that price tag...

" and it won't be a cost borne by Plug alone"

thats why i indicated that tax payers will have to pay for it...one way or the other...PLUG doesnt have the wherewithal to pay for workers lunch for one day...

"The infrastructure for Hydrogen will probably be close to that for propane."

who uses propane?...barbecuers?...

"Green Hydrogen will might always need subsidies"

yup

"but general hydrogen production shouldn't need subsidies."

no...but they will get them nonetheless...big oil hasnt needed any money from taxpayers or the Gov for decades but they have never stopped asking for them and have never turned them down...

"It looks like a lot of developing countries will be developing hydrogen."

yea..decisions like that is why they will always be classified as "developing" countries...

"I'm a recent owner of Plug. I think it's worth the gamble."

i made money trading this stock...but its been a while since its been worth it...if you are buying for a trade, good luck...but i dont see it working out...if you are investing hoping for a turnaround, its not a gamble...its insanity...and theres no reason for it...just wait until there is actually more than a hope and a prayer....no sense being greedy...pigs get slaughtered...

" I think we are near an inflection point for hydrogen use."

we were at that inflection point quite awhile ago...what you are seeing now is the result...and it aint looking good...

Well said steve...I can't say anything about Andy without one of Andy's back door guys giving me a hard time.

mik - Naw. From $75 down to $1.50's , I am not out scored by anyone here.

This same guy had us going to what $200 at one time? He's been wrong all the way down. What ever happened to SK? I thought they were building a Giga factory with us for fuel cell and also an H2 plant, but no updates in years. Also, we had a big bus deal there and no updates. How can anyone have faith in Andy when he fails at being transparent and maybe one in 10 deals ever get done and you don't even know if they are profitable at that. This whole group cannot be trusted to tell us the truth. Their projections have all failed and now we are in a do or die circumstance with a band-aid put on every few months for life support hoping for a miracle. So, what the miracle to be?

Jb....Mr morgan is out posting you

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/production/saudi-aramco-completes-acquisition-of-50-stake-in-blue-hydrogen-producer-jointly-owned-by-air-products/2-1-1796834

Yep. Germany has strict environmental laws. It puts California to shame. China, Japan and South Korea still have terrible air pollution problems.

Longsands8 36m
HSBC note for last wk
https://stocktwits.com/Longsands8/message/609039672

Plug Power Positioned for Growth Amid Strategic Financing and Regulatory Tailwinds
Mar 24, 2025

Amit Dayal, an analyst from H.C. Wainwright, reiterated the Buy rating on Plug Power (PLUG – Research Report). The associated price target remains the same with $3.00.

Amit Dayal has given his Buy rating due to a combination of factors that position Plug Power for potential growth. The company recently completed a significant $280 million underwritten offering, which is expected to alleviate financing concerns and support working capital needs. This move, along with management’s decision to align compensation with stock performance, indicates a strong commitment to improving operational efficiency and achieving positive gross margins by 2025.
Additionally, Plug Power stands to benefit from favorable regulatory developments, such as the U.S. Department of Energy’s loan guarantee for green hydrogen production facilities, which could act as a catalyst for stock appreciation. The company’s strategic positioning in both the U.S. and European markets, coupled with its potential to capitalize on the global shift towards renewable energy, supports the expectation of substantial revenue growth over the next decade. Despite current market challenges and risks, the stock’s low trading levels and high short interest suggest that any positive developments could lead to a significant upward movement in stock price.

https://www.tipranks.com/news/ratings/plug-power-positioned-for-growth-amid-strategic-financing-and-regulatory-tailwinds#google_vignette

Germany, China, Japan, and South Korea are supporting hydrogen companies and projects.

Behind Siemens & BASF’s World-First Green Hydrogen Project
By James Darley March 24, 2025

BASF has commissioned a 54MW water electrolyser at its Ludwigshafen site that will become Germany's largest proton exchange membrane (PEM) electrolyser.
The facility, built over approximately two years, can produce up to one tonne of CO2 -free hydrogen hourly with an annual capacity reaching 8,000 tonnes.
...
Funding and investment for the project
The project received substantial governmental support through the IPCEI Hydrogen initiative, with funding of up to US$134.6m.
Of this amount, the Rhineland-Palatinate state government contributed approximately US$40.4m, while BASF invested around US$27.1m.
...
https://sustainabilitymag.com/articles/behind-siemens-basfs-world-first-green-hydrogen-project

Hydrogen Tube Trailer Market to Hit USD 651.9 Million by 2032, Driven by Increasing Hydrogen Refueling Infrastructure | Persistence Market Research

https://www.openpr.com/news/3932217/hydrogen-tube-trailer-market-to-hit-usd-651-9-million-by-2032