Plug Power Inc (PLUG) Quote

JB, as a self described hydrogen supporter, consultant and expert in the field, would you please be able to answer the following two questions I haven't yet been able to get answers for:

1) Are companies willing to pay a premium for hydrogen in any application you are familiar with, to replace their current use of fossil fuels, and thus reduce their carbon footprint? What would that premium be, say for example in Levelized Total Cost of Owership (LTCO) for the hydrogen used in $/kg over the lifetime of the equipment/vehicle/plant/etc. depending on application?
2) What is the cost parity of hydrogen in $/kg with diesel/natural gas in any/all of the applications you are familiar with?

I believe I have a pretty good idea of the cost parity for gasoline, but not for diesel and natural gas. Any feedback on the above two questions would be greatly appreciated.

Banger - Great article:

Good analysis. The hydrogen technology works. Hydrogen economics in most applications , don't work.

Plug's "Integrated product offering across the hydrogen value chain" may actually be a weakness rather than a strength, as several offerings are negative and draw value/margins away from viable offerings.

Studer - I am an environmentalist and a strong supporter of Hydrogen.

I believe that PLUG is wasting valuable monies which could be better spent to improve the environment, which best explains my abrasiveness towards PLUG.

Our clients include : Investment groups (Banks, Private Equity, etc), some of whom I am sure have holdings in Fossil Fuels.
Our clients also include utilities, who may also have ties with fossil fuels.
Most of our clients are involved in or investing in Alternative Energy, and I am certain that some of these compete with hydrogen and or Plug.

as Jack would say "Here’s an interesting article"!

https://www.investing.com/news/company-news/plug-powers-swot-analysis-fuel-cell-firms-stock-faces-cash-burn-challenges-93CH-3680237

Reasonable assessment of current situation although a little repetitive in places.

Jack, very interesting, thank you. You did not mention whether your consultation group is "independent" or your group is underwritten by a competitive consortium to Plug Power. Is your group independent of fossil fuel money? You have to admit, you are always abrasive to anything relative to a Plug Power Juggernaut.

Studer - I am one of several who advise our clients on energy/finance matters.

We work remotely and I manage a group of very intelligent people who help, so that I am not in client meetings 100% of the time.
Currently I am in Hamburg, Germany, having just attended an important Hydrogen Conference, and getting quite a few new engagements among the attendees. I am concerned that PLUG was conspicuously absent, again, at this event; that makes two of the biggest industry events in a row. Perhaps we will see them in Berlin next month.

A post like this takes about 2 minutes in my day, and rarely does my posting time exceed 15 minutes in total in a single day.

I really hope that the "true believers" here "succeed beyond even Andy Marsh's wildest dreams, " but I don't see that happening and I regularly express my reasons for this position. But more importantly, I contribute a great deal of useful information about PLUG and Hydrogen which my position in the energy sector affords me and not others on this board.

There will be much noise surrounding PLUG in the next 4 weeks, and when this noise subsides, we will know better how PLUG will fare in 2025. There are several areas of serious concern and I suspect PLUG will Fail in addressing most of these (if past performance and results are an indicator).

if they are going to survive. ???????? Jack, there is some kind of disconnect here. Viewing your posts, you are a "world traveler", attending all kinds of conferences around the world, yet you have the time to respond to every little post on the PLUG and many other boards. Does this make sense to even you? Most of the respondents on this board have a genuine interest in seeing Plug Power not only survive, but excel beyond what even Andy Marsh forecasts. How is it you have so much time to spend on little peons like us, who are just trying to make a little money in this market?

WTM - WOW ! Two Trucks.

And Plug won't be the refueler.

Plug needs to do much better than this, if they are going to survive.

Back in Feb, plug announced they were going to save $75 mil by laying off employees…that’s a LOT of layoffs…it was said the average employee made $61k…you do the math…and they did this while in the process of finalizing the $1.6 bil loan…

Now they are on some kind of hiring spree?…

Sounds like this company is broke…in more ways than one…

Repost from the NKLA board, courtesy of TheKRA.

Another article about the DHL trucks. Interestingly this one mentions that they are in Illinois, not California, like most sales. It mentions that they will be refueling at the Diageo site.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dhl-getting-2-nikola-hydrogen-110000270.html

Steve - Very Doubtful.

Magnolia, Texas is no where near PLUG's delayed hydrogen facility.

With Earnings, the Election and the Symposium all just weeks away, I expect Great News from PLUG !

That would be the time to announce New Debt.

Steve, was not going to mention this, at the risk of irritating JB. However, since you asked, looking at the list of open positions again this morning, I noticed that they added 9 new open positions yesterday, and yet the total is still 119, so they are adding them fast, and filling them out fast. More importantly, 5 open positions were for two manufacturing facilities in Texas, 4 in Houston Texas, and one in Magnolia Texas. There was an open position also two days ago in Magnolia Texas. So perhaps, something big positive is going on in Texas, but don't know exactly what it is.

I wonder why buses have not been as successful as the class 8 trucks so far. I also wonder how Hyvia is doing. Seems, instead of large van fleets they are still in trials after a few years.

I wonder if this means funding is imminent and they are ready to get the Tx. plant moving again?

THE HYDROGEN FOLLY !

We all get to see the Hydrogen "WINS", but the failures rarely get noticed.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/10/24/how-many-hydrogen-transit-trial-failures-are-enough/amp/<br>

Repost from FCEL board, courtesy of Hoghead7.

Hydrogen and electrolysers win big in EU’s €4.8bn Innovation Fund push
By Charlie Currie
on Oct 24, 2024
https://www.h2-view.com/story/hydrogen-and-electrolysers-win-big-in-eus-e4-8bn-innovation-fund-push/2116452.article/

JB, for what it's worth, I interpret it the same as UK.

"as it depend on the definition of the highlighted words "hydrogen highway"."

yea, i dont know about that...if thats the argument, then nothing is ever a lie...

i can say i built the largest skyscraper in the world and when its proven to not be true i simply say "well, it depends on your definition of "skyscraper"...

"i never had sex with that woman"....depends on your definition of sex...depends on your definition of "is"...

and on and on...

"Plug Power has built a ‘hydrogen highway’ across the United States"

when that turns out to be, not true, we blame the rest of the world for not understanding it wasnt true???

Banger - If you are not on the Jury, your opinion doesn't matter.

It will be up to the Courts to decide, but if PLUG was my client, I would urge them to settle out of Court.

(Another Nail for Plug's Coffin)

nothing false there, misleading perhaps as it depend on the definition of the highlighted words "hydrogen highway".
PLUG will tell you that they have their hydrogen delivery vehicles covering a large portion of the national highway network from coast to coast. If others interpret it as a consumer could drive coast to coast filling up at PLUGs 165 stations then they are not doing their due diligence before setting off.

This is over 2 years old as well. may not be the largest Liquid H2 buyer any more since their own supply is available.

Here is a Fun Read :

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-hydrogen-cars/

WTM - A Key Take-Away :

"Plug Power is the largest buyer of liquid hydrogen globally and has built a ‘hydrogen highway’ across the United States, including over 165 refueling stations that service fleets of hydrogen-powered trucks, forklifts and e-mobility vehicles in commercial industries throughout the nation. This is another step in Plug Power’s ambition to create a complete green hydrogen ecosystem, from hydrogen production powered by renewables to storage and transportation, serving customers in North America and beyond."

No wonder Plug is being sued for False and Misleading Statements !

UK, a Stocktwits member agrees with you, and referenced the following article.

Plug Power Completes Acquisition of Applied Cryo Technologies
November 23, 2021
https://www.ir.plugpower.com/press-releases/news-details/2021/Plug-Power-Completes-Acquisition-of-Applied-Cryo-Technologies-2021-11-23/default.aspx

Applied Cryo Technologies’ Leadership in Cryogenic Equipment Helps Plug Power Advance Development of Green Hydrogen Infrastructure

LATHAM, N.Y., Nov. 23, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Plug Power Inc. (NASDAQ:PLUG), a leading provider of turnkey hydrogen solutions for the global green hydrogen economy, completed the acquisition of Applied Cryo Technologies, Inc., a leading provider of technology, equipment and services for the transportation, storage and distribution of liquefied hydrogen and other cryogenic gases, following the definitive agreement announced on October 14, 2021.

The acquisition of Applied Cryo Technologies adds significant capabilities, expertise, and technologies to Plug Power, including a liquid hydrogen delivery network and fleet, liquid hydrogen storage, and hydrogen mobility fueling, which will enable the company to expand its green hydrogen ecosystem and lower the cost of hydrogen infrastructure and logistics networks.

Plug Power welcomes more than 200 new employees based out of Houston, TX. “This is a natural fit for Plug Power, and our new team members,” said Andy Marsh, CEO of Plug Power. “We all share a vision to build and grow the green hydrogen economy. Applied Cryo Technologies’ leading cryogenic equipment design and manufacturing capabilities, combined with Plug Power’s green hydrogen production and distribution capabilities will help us realize our ambitious goal of producing over 1,000 tons per day of green hydrogen by 2028.”

Plug Power is the largest buyer of liquid hydrogen globally and has built a ‘hydrogen highway’ across the United States, including over 165 refueling stations that service fleets of hydrogen-powered trucks, forklifts and e-mobility vehicles in commercial industries throughout the nation. This is another step in Plug Power’s ambition to create a complete green hydrogen ecosystem, from hydrogen production powered by renewables to storage and transportation, serving customers in North America and beyond.

I would assume they are for the cryogenic business they make the hydrogen storage etc in Texas. 

WTM - The New Fortress project is in Beaumont, TX., Magnolia, TX is North of Houston.

These don't look related. When I was in Houston last month for Gastech, I took the opportunity to visit several Alt Energy and Hydrogen Projects.

Some interesting new technologies. The ones that really interested me aren't dependent on 45 v or other Government assistance.

Hundreds on new jobs ... no wonder Plug can't make a profit.

UK, BB, could the Texas Manufacturing Facility in the first two positions posted by Plug Power yesterday and in my previous post (reproduced below) be the Texas hydrogen plant mentioned in the following article from Aug. 2022?

Plug Power to build Texas hydrogen plant
Plug Power has struck an agreement with New Fortress Energy to work on a 120-megawatt green hydrogen plant in Texas.
Aug 12, 2022
https://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Plug-Power-to-build-Texas-hydrogen-plant-17366941.php


Vacuum Technician
Magnolia, TX Manufacturing Facility

Team Lead - Manufacturing
Magnolia, TX Manufacturing Facility

govprs - I agree. Plug won't sit in the $2.00's much longer.

Without a major positive catalyst, Plug will soon be in the $1.00's.

And if the DOE Dough is cancelled ... Below $1.00.

Seven new open positions added yesterday, and the total remained at 119, meaning that seven positions were filled yesterday. Link https://plugpower.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/Plug_Power_Inc

Of particular interest:

Vacuum Technician
Magnolia, TX Manufacturing Facility

Team Lead - Manufacturing
Magnolia, TX Manufacturing Facility

Regional HR Manager
Paris, France

Hyundai Rotem has started to develop next-generation tanks that use hydrogen fuel cells as power sources
October 23, 2024
…
If a motor using hydrogen fuel cells is used as a driving system, mobility such as rapid acceleration and on-site capability will be improved, and low-noise driving will be possible, thereby improving covertness.
…
https://hydrogen-central.com/hyundai-rotem-has-started-to-develop-next-generation-tanks-that-use-hydrogen-fuel-cells-as-power-sources/


I think there will be an Hydrogen arms race
- Long range liquid hydrogen military vehicles, ships and aircrafts
- Silent stealth fuel cell battle tanks with low maintenance
- Nuclear carrier with on-site hydrogen production for own carrier taskforce fuel supply (for hydrogen planes and ships)
- Portable on-site hydrogen production for combat units
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=173543829

I added 1000 this week and may add more tomorrow Friday and next week

Will not sit in the 2s for much longer imho

Studer, thank you for the kind words. Added another 2,000 shares lately.

WeTheMarket: Great Post !!! And by the way, congratulations on your additional 1,000 share purchase of PLUG stock a while back. It will be interesting to see if the tide is turning the first week in November. The better improvement will definitely be 4th quarter, but I would think we will see some better numbers in the 3rd. Thanks for all you do to keep us informed on all things PLUG !!!

Steve - CORRECTION :

Germany has NOT funded $10 billion expansion of hydrogen in Germany.
______________________________________________________

Germany Approves Plans for €19 Billion Hydrogen Network
By Eva Brendel
October 22, 2024 at 5:44AM EDT

Germany wants to replace most of its fossil fuel needs with hydrogen to achieve climate neutrality by 2045. (Alex Kraus/Bloomberg)
(Bloomberg) -- Germany approved plans for the construction of a €19 billion hydrogen network, deepening its commitment to an energy source that has faced setbacks in recent months.

The German Federal Network Agency said it approved proposals from transmission system operators for a 9,040-kilometer hydrogen grid, which will be built out in the coming years and be fully operational by 2032. It’s set to form a core network that will connect industrial hubs — such as steel producers — seeking to decarbonize.

Europe’s largest economy wants to replace most of its fossil fuel needs with hydrogen to achieve climate neutrality by 2045. Lately, however, its push has faced setbacks with the cancellation of a key pipeline from Norway. Officials have said that the majority of Germany’s hydrogen needs will need to be covered by imports initially.

The original proposal for the core network was 600 kilometers longer than the plans that were ultimately approved, allowing the estimated cost to drop from €19.7 billion to €18.9 billion. Klaus Mueller, head of the Federal Network Agency, said parts of the initial plans would have been redundant.

60% of the network will be converted from existing gas pipelines, and the rest will be newly built. Mueller said about 660 kilometers of current gas links will be strengthened, an effort that will cost €2 billion. The first pipes are set to be operational next year.


©2024 Bloomberg L.P.



https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investing/commodities/2024/10/22/germany-approves-plans-for-19-billion-hydrogen-network/

Co-Pilot I asked about the new bill and about Plugs presence in Germany. It says we have been there since 2022 and have 60 employees. You
Maybe, as Germany just funded a $10 billion dollar expansion of hydrogen in Germany
Copilot
That's right1
! Germany has committed $10 billion to fund 62 large-scale hydrogen projects as part of its National Hydrogen Strategy1
. This investment aims to make Germany a global leader in hydrogen technologies and reduce emissions in sectors like transportation, steelmaking, and chemicals1
.

It's definitely a significant boost for the hydrogen industry, and it could create new opportunities for companies like Plug Power.

Here's some Bad News!

Every Hydrogen Project in Australia is DELAYED or CANCELLED.

https://www.energycouncil.com.au/analysis/australia-s-green-hydrogen-ambitions-soldiering-on-despite-adversity/
;

Nothing to do with PLUG.

Here is a good example of a viable Hydrogen project :

https://seekingalpha.com/news/4192557-cemex-linde-to-receive-157m-in-eu-funding-for-german-carbon-capture-project?mailingid=37176046&messageid=2900&serial=37176046.1571&source=email_2900&utm_campaign=rta-stock-news&utm_content=link-4&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&utm_term=37176046.1571#scroll_comments

Anecdotal evidence of a PLUG comeback, 38 new positions posted yesterday for a total of 119 open positions currently. Link https://plugpower.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/Plug_Power_Inc

Of particular interest:

HR Site Lead
Houston, Texas 77038

Machine Operator - (3rd Shift (3x12) - Friday - Sunday: 5:30AM - 6:00PM)
Rochester, NY 14586

Field Service Technician - Stellantis - Sterling Heights, Michigan
Sterling Heights, MI

Field Service Technician - The Home Depot- Locust Grove, GA
Locust Grove, Georgia 30248

Machine Operator - (4th Shift (3x12) - Friday - Sunday: 5:30PM - 6:00AM)
Rochester, NY 14586

Production Team Leader (Weekend Overnight Shift: Friday - Sunday: 5:30PM - 6:00 AM)
Rochester, NY 14586

Field Service Technician - Tyson - Macon, GA
Macon, Georgia 31216

Field Service Technician - Grainger - Patterson, CA
Patterson, CA

Field Service Technician - Coca Cola - San Leandro, CA
San Leandro, California 64577

WTM - No Funding. No FID.

EVERY PLUG RALLY FADES WITHIN DAYS !

Repost from FCEL board, courtesy of Hoghead7.

Cleared for construction: Germany’s hydrogen core network secures approval
By Charlie Currie
on Oct 22, 2024
https://www.h2-view.com/story/cleared-for-construction-germanys-hydrogen-core-network-secures-approval/2116346.article/

$PLUG HI all : one portable hydrogen refueler,
https://fuelcellsworks.com/2024/10/22/fuel-cells/rts-celebrates-addition-of-hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-buses-to-its-fleet

MORE BAD NEWS :

Yet another major Green Hydrogen Project Delayed or Cancelled .

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/repsol-freezes-green-hydrogen-projects-spain-2024-10-21/<br>

Here's an Interesting Read :

https://www.marketbeat.com/stocks/NASDAQ/PLUG/?RegistrationCode=BackButton&utm_source=backbutton&utm_medium=backbutton

So, we supply the refueler and not the fuel cells. I just hope this is very profitable with a nice recurring revenue stream.

Repost from HYZN board.
No directly related to PLUG, nevertheless, great news for all hydrogen companies.

Hyzon Secures First Hydrogen Powered Fuel Cell Electric Refuse Truck Order In North America From Waste Industry Pioneer GreenWaste
October 22, 2024
https://www.hyzonfuelcell.com/in-the-news/hyzon-secures-first-hydrogen-powered-fuel-cell-electric-refuse-truck-order

Key quotes:

"Hyzon ...has entered into a purchase agreement for North America’s first 12 hydrogen-powered refuse Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs) with recycling and innovation pioneer GreenWaste"

"The hydrogen-powered refuse collection FCEVs produce zero tailpipe emissions, supporting GreenWaste’s broader sustainability initiatives, including its 2030 goal to achieve a 45% reduction in total combined Scope 1 and Scope 2 greenhouse gas emissions from its 2022 baseline."

$ PLUG Hi All PLUG doing business with SamTrans : Plug has seen immediate demand for the HL 1500 from major transit agencies, including Rochester (N.Y.) Genesee Transit and San Mateo County Transit District (SamTrans). By the end of this year, three transit customers will receive the first shipments.


https://www.ir.plugpower.com/press-releases/news-details/2023/Plug-Power-Hosts-Analyst-Day-to-Showcase-Revenue-Growth-Opportunities-and-Operational-Scale-at-Gigafactory/default.aspx

FCmove™-HD+ from Ballard, unfortunately

$PLUG Hi All PLUG is doing business with Sam Trans : https://fuelcellsworks.com/2024/10/21/fuel-cells/nfi-subsidiary-new-flyer-awarded-largest-hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-contract-in-company-history-108-buses-to-california-s-samtrans

https://www.ecoticias.com/en/hydrogen-energy-emmissions-technology/7771/#google_vignette

And they have likely done none of it profitably…probably not even close to profitably…

Maybe that’s why Nkla is, when taking out the recent r/s, 12 cents per share…

The business model of making and selling a few trucks at a loss of $350k per truck cannot continue…neither can making and selling a few trucks for little or no profit…and it doesn’t matter who likes them…

This business model and losses cannot continue on much longer…especially with hydrogen beginning to fall out of favor…